Wednesday, February 10 2010

Soccer

More of your emails

Friday November 20 2009

I think it is rather cynical of Thierry Henry to say 5 minutes after the FFF officially rejected a replay that he has had a sudden conversion and recommends a replay as a fair outcome. How dare he treat the Irish people like idiots. Why did he not look for a replay before the FF made its announcement?

60 million people and advertising versus 4.5 million. Think of the revenue losses for FIFA. There is no such thing as fair play in soccer today. The credibility and integrity of the sport is now corrupted.

Brendan

As a Irish national living in Thailand I am disappointed that we are not going to South Africa, however I do not blame Henry as he did what most players would do and got away with it.

It is a very poor refereeing situation which is not much conciliation to us. However his celebration of the goal was not sporting for a player whose career has been outstanding.

Also I feel if Ireland had won the game in these circumstances there would be a replay as FIFA need France in the world cup.

Barry

I am French and I really feel sorry about what happened. It's a shame for our country and a shame for Henry to speak so lately !

Most of the people around me feel we don't deserve our qualification.

Vincent

YesI do believe an injustice has been done. Having played soccer for 25 years it's hard to take when something goes unseen by the officials but it's a fact it happens.

The biggest injustice of the whole scenario is how the referee never booked Anelka for diving over Shay Given's legs looking for a penalty which would really constitute cheating and would if I am correct have meant his dismissal as he'd already been booked in the first half, also how the linesman who you can clearly see looking across the line did not flag offside against the two French players that were standing in an offside position when the free kick was taken.

If he had done so what happenened afterwards would not have mattered.

My final point is how Lassanna Diarra managed to stay on the field of play at all after all the fouls he committed.

So if the referee is to be blamed for anything other than missing the double handball and not consulting with his linesman is how on earth did france finish with 11 players on the field. Henry did what most footballers will do instinctively and tried to control the ball, his instinctive theory or cop out would work if he had not controlled it twice with his hand before passing it.

Michael

Of course, you must follow the rules . Having said this, the rules said nothing about seeding in playoffs or us and only us (2nd seed ) playing away last . So I agree with the decision just not all their decisions.

Leeds

Too little too late from Henry - he's just trying to salvage his reputation which he knows is at stake. Hearing this is almost as galling as seeing him sit down and commiserate with Richard Dunne (in his usual pseudo-fraternal manner) after the final whistle.

Henry always wants to be seen as the nice guy but, unfortunately for him, he can't have his cake and eat it.

David Rowan

I am bitterly dissapionted with FIFA, France and football in general, the issue of the goal in itself is bad, however I believe that seeding the playoff games in favour of higher ranked teams half way throught the tournament leaves a very sour taste in the mouth.

This decision was clearly taken after a few top teams were not performing well in their groups eg. France and Portugal. I fully understand the motivations which are directly linked to the revenue derived from ensuring that the biggest names are present at the world cup.

In conjunction with the goal issue have shaken what little public confidence there was left in the governing body for the beautiful game.

A replay is unlikely, however we MUST take the issue to the court of arbitration for sport, for ourselves and football in general, and especially for the next nation to be denied their rightfully earned place in footballing history.

Matt

We shouldn’t have to replay the 90 minutes, we won that match fair and square. If anything, replay the extra time + penalties if need be.

Better solution is to send Ireland to the Finals as well, and let FIFA figure out the mathematics of slotting them into a group. I’m sure they have enough consultants on board who could sort that out.

The problem for FIFA, France and Thierry, is that if they don’t do something positive, that this will be in the archives of football history forever. Maybe they could get away with it back in the days of Maradona, but the Internet and global communications has changed all that.

Believe me, this story may die after a couple of weeks here, but wait til next summer in South Africa. FIFA are just being penny wise and pound foolish, right from manipulating the playoffs. They have made their bed…..let them…..

Mary Crawford

Did any Irishmen feel sorry for the English when the 'Hand of God' lost them a world cup game?. No I did not think so.

What would the the reaction be in Ireland if it happened the other way around?

My tip for your Irish readers is to support the English next year, that should fill up your Pubs. Good luck in 2014.

Michael

I do not think, given the agreed rules under which soccer is played, that FIFA have any option but to reject the FAI request.

That being said, however, I think FIFA now have no option but to examine and introduce some form of Television Match Official and some rules governing this.

Incidents like Wednesday's illustrate a serious type of injustice which can occur in the absence of a video review process, and these incidents will eventually bring the game into disrepute.

Darach Corcoran

I absolutely agree that there should not be a replay. We had lots of chances to win the game but did not take them. At best we could have got to penalties but we would have lost out to the superior technical ability of the French players.

The ‘outrage’ from the media and supporters is hopefully just the dying kick of the Celtic Tiger era. We should be hanging our heads in shame at the damage we caused our standing in the world instead of acting like petulant children over what was an instinctive action by Thierry Henry. We do not have to go as far afield as France to find individuals who have cheated the Irish population out of a greater inheritance than a four week trip to South Africa.

Tom Kelly

I am bitterly dissapionted with FIFA, France and football in general, the issue of the goal in itself is bad, however I believe that Platini by seeding the playoff games in favour of higher ranked teams half way throught the tournament leaves a very sour taste in the mouth. This decision was clearly taken after a few top teams were not performing well in their groups eg. France and Portugal, Platini has shamelessly attempted to distort the best competition in the world in favour of his own country, and bigger teams in general. I fully understand his motivations which are directly linked to the revenue derived from ensuring that the biggest names are present at the world cup. In conjunction with the goal issue have shaken what little public confidence there was left in the governing body for the beautiful game. A replay is unlikely, however we MUST take the issue to the court of arbitration for sport, for ourselves and football in general, and especially for the next nation to be denied their rightfully earned place in footballing history.

Here in Spain the sports pages are full of the story, 6 very harsh on FIFA France & Henry. .

But I'd like to ask why did the FAI & the other 3 associations roll over so meekly when the seeding came up? Was this already in the rules?

And what exactly is the cited precedent of " Uzbekistan versus Bahrain in Sept 2005 following a ‘technical error’ by the referee"?

Declan Doyle

On the FIFA Fair Play website it states “The Fair Play Campaign was conceived largely as an indirect result of the 1986 FIFA World Cup™ in Mexico, when the handball goal by Diego Maradona stimulated the admirable reaction of the England coach, Sir Bobby Robson. Since then, the campaign has had with the unconditional support of former FIFA President João Havelange and current President Joseph S. Blatter.”

Without a FIFA remedy for “Foul Play” this campaign is nothing more than a feel good sound bite. At the very least, Thierry Henry should be banned from the group stages of the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

Joe Dalton

An Irish person living in Paris, I have yet to come across a French person who is not thoroughly ashamed of the way they qualified.

Yes, he handled it.
Yes, it was intentional.
No, the officials did not call it, but the referees decision is final. Yes, it was heart-breakingly unfair. And yes, I would love to see us in the World Cup.

But not this way. The desperate squabbling by FAI officials and members of our government is cringe-worthy (not to mention the conspiracy theorists). When the final whistle went, the image of the Irish players' distress alongside the smug celebrations of Raymond Domenech shocked and embarassed all watching. We held the moral high ground then and can still hold our heads high, as long as our representatives regain their composure and remember that the rules are the rules.

They may not be good ones…but that's the subject for another debate.

PS : Lads, yiz played a blinder and we won't forget it.

AJ

Get used to it lads- We are in Scotland.

Do what we do- pick yer team, pick their national drink an have an oul hoolie watchin them play. And if they beat France- all the sweeter!

Fraser- Glasgow

To answer your questions : yes a grave injustice has been committed during this match. But referee is part of the game and when we listen Ireland people (and even some French people) we could think this is the first time an injustice occurs during a Football Game. I would like to recall here the match we played in Serbia some weeks ago where Loris has been given a red card plus a penalty at the very beginning of the game. It was too a grave injustice which prevented us to reach the 1 position of this group. And as far as I recall we didn’t make all this media hype but stayed focus on our target : Go to South Africa.

Of course the match France-Ireland couldn’t be replayed because it should mean that we should replay the match against Serbia as well as all the succeeding match of the group. Moreover I think if FIFA would take this decision it would set a precedent meaning that from this point all the matches during which a referee makes a mistake will have to be replayed too… But it is mechanically impossible because in this case we will have to replay one match every 4 or 5 games!!!

Concerning the sanction of Thierry Henry, I am more open. But in this case, we have to keep in mind that again it would set a precedent and then Kean has to be banned too because if I remember he played with his hands on several occasions in this match...

Emmanuel From France

Like 63% to 82% of the french (various polls) I think the match should be replayed, as well as Ireland vs Georgia, right ?

Alain

Though gutted by fact that Ireland have lost out and very surprised that Thierry Henry is the guilty player, I don't think replaying games is right. If there were grounds for replaying a game, other that proven bribery of match officials, then big clubs and countries would exploit this and somehow the final whistle would no longer be the same.

However it is imperative the FIFA / EUFA and domestic associations do everything to make sure matches are played fairly. Measures might include

  • Use Television replays like Tennis and Rugby in all major competitions. A debate would need to be had on how TV replays would be used both during the game and afterwards(as part of the disciplinary process.
  • Sin binning for cheating, bad behaviour and fouls (but not bad enough to warrant a sending off)
  • Very strong disciplinary action (Alex Ferguson beware!)
  • Independent time keeping role
  • Continuous assessment of officials
  • No changing of tournament rule during the course of a competition

In fact the authorities have dismally failed to take action, given the amount of wrong decisions that would have been helped by TV replays.

The football authorities have failed in their duty to the game and the millions of fans around the world. I think a plea by the FAI on these grounds to the Court of Arbitration for Sport could lead to a significant shift for the good of the game

Michael

I find the mass hysteria and media inspired calls for justice, fair play and a reply over the Thierry Henry hand ball both nauseous and hypocritical in the extreme, based on being sore losers. Yes it was a blatant handball which should have been spotted by the Officials, and yes it is / was an unjust way to 'lose' the playoff but, unfortunately these things happen far too often, and until there is use of the proper tehcnologies, they will continue to happen.

Don't get me wrong I don't think they should happen, but that seems to be the culture inculcated into football players worldwide, as well as sports people in this country; you only have to go and watch a GAA match to see all the shirt pulling and fouling, which could be called 'cheating' etc etc.

Even more to the point 'cheating', if that's what we want to call it, goes on all the time in every match by most players; be it calling for a throw or corner when you know it isn't, diving and rolling around feigning injury and more pertinently trying to control the ball with the hand and hoping to get away with it.

In this match Robbie Keane tried to do this on a number of occasions, even once in the French box, but unfortunately for himself and Ireland got caught each time. What if the referee hadn't spotted his handball in the French box and he had managed to turn, get a shot away and score? A case of the pot calling the kettle black!

As bad as this decision was it was no worse than any of the others listed and just points to us being a Nation of hypocrites who are sore losers, made even worse by first the media driving calls for a replay, then John Delaney, CEO of the FAI doing so, which is excusable. Then comes the biggest dose of hypocrisy with Fianna Fail jumping on the populist bandwagon and calling for fair play; and this from a government whose notions of fair play seem to be hitting the poorest hardest, lining their own nesteggs and protecting friends in the banking sector!

James Brook

I am writting from Buenos Aires, Argentina. Firstly, I wish to express my solidarity with the Irish people. FIFA's laws and motto "Fair Play" are in contradiction. In this case the 'Rules' fauvoured a "Dirty Play".

Oscar Gibson

I agree that the matter should be reviewed. There are already questions pertaining to the process of selecting what teams play each other in the early rounds in an effort to have the "big" teams in the playoffs. Giving the world an opportunity to see that at least one major sports body takes "cheating" seriously would be a benefit to young and old alike.

G Stapleton, New York

Isn't it about time that FIFA get it together and over rule the obvious mistake made by the referee. Why can't they stop the play and go to the television monitors and look at the play by play footage like they do in other sports like ice hockey, rugby, American Football to name a few.

Ireland's hopes are ruined because FIFA wants to play GOD. I wonder what would happen if this happened to Ital! GOD or should I say FIFA only knows the answer.

Shay Redmond

I am shocked and disappointed about the whole incident. France wanted a replay of the Lisbon Treaty which we gave to them therefore they should give us a replay of the match.

Fiona

Let us stick with the moral victory. It was bad luck. Just let it go.

Alan O'Brien

I saw the match here in Australia, true it was a blatant handball, however all you idiots saying that Ireland deserved to win are completely WRONG. Injustice happens all the time in sport with pathetic referees, I don’t blame Henry or France, blame the ref, if he’s that stupid not picking up a hand ball in the box then France deserves to win. They were denied a clear penalty, they beat the Irish in Ireland, Ireland could not score to win therefore they LOST.

One other thing for all you European “French Haters”, France has won the world cup, they were robbed last time in the FINAL against Italy who by the way cheated by getting a penalty against Australia in 2006, crap happens, only the Irish wants Ireland in the world cup, France has support all over the world.

Get Over it.

Jan Logan

Since the 1994 world cup in the USA FIFA have been portraying an image of "fair play" in soccer. At every international match I have seen world wide since the Ireland v Italy game in the Giants Stadium the teams have been led into the stadiums by six mascots carrying a giant yellow banner with the slogan " FIFA FAIR PLAY" in big Bold letters across the front of it.

FIFA also offer award prizes to teams with the best "fair play" record in tournaments and even in the European leagues they offer club teams with the best "fair play" record at the end of the season a chance to qualify for the Europa Cup through the Intertoto cup regardless of where they finished in their domestic league.

I think now is the time for FIFA to show the world that they are truly serious about this "fair play" campaign or else it will be clear for every one to see how hypocritical their organisation really is.

Eoin Glynn

Henry should not be banned. HE admitted to the handball and did the right thing (not morally) by saying it is the referees responsibility. It is on the referee, and also the FIFA for not engaging a review method. There should be a replay of the game or at the least, a round of penalty kicks.

Irish fan from USA

Let me be straight with you, I'm a Frenchman, and I'm not proud of what happened during the game. I think what Henry did was unfortunate and that Ireland deserved better.

However to be fair, there were two uncalled penalties that the referee did not call, one on Evra in Dublin, another on Anelka in Paris.

Against Serbia France was given a red card and Serbia was awarded a penalty on what was one of the most egregious dives we'd ever seen. France went on to tie the game, despite playing a man and goal down since the 20 min mark. This game could have made the difference in our qualifying, as we ended up just 1pt behind Serbia.

Why bring this up you may wonder? Because this is part of the game. You didn't hear France complaining to FIFA about the Italian referee’s decision. They accepted it and moved on.

I'm not proud of the way we played, and the way we went through, but keep in mind that at that point we were finally making some moves and getting some chances. The tide of the game was moving in our direction, not to mention, that the Irish still needed to beat us on penalties. So to say that the Irish deserved to win isn't fair, and to complain about the loss is pointless. It wasn't pretty, but it's football, and asking FIFA for a rematch makes Ireland look bad.

Calling for a ban on Henry is just ridiculous.

We had 4 serious injuries is, Ribery, Toulalan, Abidal, and Escude, if the Irish didn't make it through, they have only themselves to blame. You're out, were in, end of story.

As for the seeding, there’s a reason for that. No body wants to watch a world cup with Slovenia, Slovakia, Greece, Bosnia, North Korea and Ireland. The Irish had their shot, and they blew it. Move on.

Maximilien Valente

Thank God, that it was the French who were the baddies this time, and not any other British side. Cheating no matter how it is done is CHEATING! Ultimately, FIFA will have to have a Hawk Eye, or as in the NRL instant third Referee TV referral.

Contemptible is the perfect word for this blatant act. From now on, the French team should be known as The Contemptibles.

Denis

Hi I'm from french caribbean like Thierry Henri and found that it's a shame. Not proud at all.

As far as I remember I love your fighting spirit in all sports, rugby and football particularly.

I can understand that a footballer do anything to win.

But the French Federation should accept to replay the match.

The whole majority in France is agree, so i think that you should encourage Irish to wrote on the Facebook page of Nicolas Sarkosy to try to replay this match?

And to the FFF and the FIFA also...

André Allaguy-Salachy

I'm a Slovenian, happy about our yourney to South Africa, but I am also sad, because the FIFA does not present "fair play". Any team deserve fair game, fair referee.

Henry should get red card, and the game must be replayed, and the leaders of the FIFA must leave their positions, their seats.

A couple or years ago our team was also as yours now, judge from Quatar was completly blind. Justice must be done and the game must be replayed! Good luck! Small nations must work and figth together!

Greg

As much as I can understand the Irish disappointment, I am quite surprised by many of the comments I read.

I do not understand why the Irish players, fans and media can claim that they should have won the game.

When Henry scored, it was a perfect draw 1-1 and the Irish team was not yet in South Africa.

Nobody can assume that Ireland would have scored afterwards or that they would have won after the penalty kicks.

For sure Henry's goal eliminated Ireland but if the goal had been refused, Ireland could have been eliminated as well.

Did Ireland deserve to go to SA and not France? Not sure either as France won at Dublin last Saturday, what Italy did not accomplish during the qualifiers.

Emile

If Ireland was China, with a population of 1 billion, we could perhaps weigh a bit more on the decision makers. However, Eire is a small islanId and nobody is going to listen to us.

However, we can take revenge, each in our small little way. The "Equipe de France" has sponsors : adidas (sportswear), Carrefour (supermarket), GDF Suez (gas/electricity), Credit Agricole (banking), SFR (Telecoms), Toyota (automobiles), Coca Cola (soft drinks) and Ferrero (chocolate).

Some do not operate in Ireland, but those that do should lose business and they should know why they lose business.

I live in France and I can make sure that my money does not go towards supporting cheats. For example, my gas contract is up for renewal at the end of the year. In theory, I can switch supplier and if I can I will let GDF Suez know that I'm going elsewhere because they support cheats and fraudsters. It's a small gesture, I know, but it's all I can do.

The funny thing is that I don't care a thing about football. I gave up on it years ago because of all the cheating and the total non respect shown to the referee by so-called players. Give me rugby any day !

Joe Ryan

Let's put this handball in to perspective, ok so he handled the ball. How many times was Robbie Keane penalized for handling the ball, how many chances did we Ireland have in both matches to score goals and put the French out at least six and faced with the same choice would Robbie do the same.

Think now, take a few seconds, ask yourself - of course he would,.that's football and as for video evidence who wants to see football start and stop to go to a telly judge? Not me. Football changes during a game when two good teams are playing each other. If we were to stop and start every time I am afraid the balance could be upset and ruin the game. Onwards and upwards.

Paddy

If all players having cheated with the hand should be banned, you couldn't have any player on the field.

Ask the Irish players face to face: have you never cheated with your hand during your career? Even during this game, we have seen many Irish hands in Stade de France which have not been penalised!!!

Georges from France

Well, coming on your web site, I am pleased to see that other French citizens have reacted as me to what happened in Stade de France on Wednesday night. I’m French and live outside France, and therefore feel often I miss and love my country even more as if I was living in Paris.

I don’t care that such actions have been done before by others Mr Domenech, I do care when it’s done by a fellow citizen representing my country. France, french sport, French Football would come out better with supporting the demand to replay that game!

PS: Long live Rugby!

Gilles Jarret, France.

Irish, living and working in France. A lot of my French colleagues aren’t proud.

In defence of the ref, he isn’t allowed to penalise what he didn’t see. Even two off-sides and a double-handball. The former were not his responsibility and the latter was blocked from his view.

And as for Th.Henry, a player with a long history of fair-play, what if he did tell or even had told the ref? Refs in football NEVER change their minds – if they did, the game would descend into chaos. It already says a lot negative about football that players still scream and shout at the ref, even though the refs are immovable.

That comment sheds little new light on the debate I fear.

But penalties in the first and second games as some have suggested here? I remember none in the first (though I am a footie-sceptic anyway), and Anelka’s antics midweek should get him barred for months. He succeeded with a free kick at about 35 metres. Lucky he failed in the penalty box. He should have been booked for that dive.

Overall, we deserved to qualify over the French – and many French on this forum and at my workplace agree. It's all about money, of course. There are millions of euros at stake, and Ireland needs them more than France does. One more Frenchman on the dole (Domanech) won’t break my adopted country! Anyway, I vote for instant video replays and on this occasion a full match replay, in a different sense. I like the FAI’s letter. The claim of precedence is very useful. But I won’t hold my breath on a favourable outcome.

Finally, any who claim that any or many Irish players and public would have loved it had the reverse happened are deluding themselves. Many French contributors here and where I live hate what happened.

Peter Culleton

I am writing to you from Australia, I am Irish and am sad for Ireland but quite simply I am disgusted for the football fans of the world.If this results stands which Iam certain it will, I can see no point in anybody supporting FIFA competitions again.

The game has zero integrity after this injustice. We do not have much that is honest in this world but I was under the illusion that sport was "hard and fair". This isnt fair on anybody, it's a crime.

Shane Higgins

I am writing from Rio de Janeiro, Brasil. Yesterday was a very sad day for football. I am a 48 years old father and I do not know what to say to my son. Ireland must do something. Think about, guys. Ireland Must Do Something! The day that football die. Long Live to Ireland football. Don't give up so easy.

Mauricio Collier Darocha

I was a local area referee for a few years some time ago.

I can understand the referee missing it as he was blind sided.

I can possibly agree that the linesman hadn't a clear view.

But how did the linesman miss the offside from the free kick? This was a static kick and very obvious.

How did the fourth official miss the hand ball?

Not good for this level of the game!

Brendan Arrigan.

If the Football associations are so against video evidence, then why are the using it to bring charges against players for incidents missed by refs ie gone unpunished.

Heads you win, tails I lose!

John Cooke

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