First Minister David Trimble caused outrage when he branded the Republic a monocultural sectarian state, but he's the first to admit there are problems in the sectarian north. Aengus Fanning, Sunday Independent editor, found an open, confident politician willing to embrace the

First Minister David Trimble caused outrage when he branded the Republic a monocultural sectarian state, but he's the first to admit there are problems in the sectarian north. Aengus Fanning, Sunday Independent editor, found an open, confident politician willing to embrace the wider world

ULSTER Unionist leader David Trimble is standing firm. He can't see what all the fuss is about and still thinks there is nothing wrong with contrasting the UK's "vibrant multi-ethnic economy" with the "sectarian, mono-ethnic, monocultural state" in the Republic.

"Could anyone explain what the excitement is all about?" he asks, still a little bewildered by the force and depth of the reaction. "What astonished me was the response, especially in the Dublin press."

The press, of course, were particularly exercised about the word "pathetic" (as in "pathetic, sectarian, mono-ethnic, monocultural state"), which was in the hand-out they were given, although in the event Trimble excised it from his actual speech. But despite the fury, he still maintains that the Irish Republic is a mono-ethnic monolithic state. "What part is multicultural, multinational or multi-ethnic?" he asks.

But he did not, he emphasises, intend the comments made to his party's ruling council in Belfast to be construed as a verbal assault on life south of the border.

"People have been reacting emotionally to this and haven't actually seen what was said. What was said was in comparison with the UK. No assertion was made about Northern Ireland. We are aware of the problems we have. I was pointing in the direction which we want to evolve. A fair amount of people in the Republic of Ireland want to evolve in that direction too, but they might not see the UK as the vehicle for doing it we do."

The UK, to quote David Trimble, is "a vibrant multi-ethnic, multinational liberal democracy, the fourth-largest economy in the world, the most reliable ally of the United States in the fight against international terrorism".

But if parity with that state is his and the Ulster Unionists' ultimate aspiration, how does he think the North is measuring up?

He is the first to admit that Northern Ireland has a long way to go. "There is a lot of sectarian feeling, there's no doubt about that at all. You only have to look at what has been happening in North Belfast six months ago, and that is something we are very closely involved in. We are still actively involved in trying to resolve the tension that exists in Northern Ireland. That is something we are trying to overcome and in doing so we want to evolve as part of a larger multinational, multicultural, multi-ethnic state."

And yet, in the last decade, staggering changes have taken place the Republic, both economically and socially. Is Mr Trimble not willing to accept that the South is more tolerant and liberal now than at any other stage in its history?

"I would have said that up to two weeks ago. I am not so sure now when I look at the way your press reacted [to his remarks]."

When asked what the reaction in the press says about the Republic of Ireland, Mr Trimble is less specific.

"I would rather you thought about that yourselves," he says. "I have made the point that I find the reaction quite interesting. I am waiting for the dust to settle for people to think about it."

As far as the Republic of Ireland's economic progress is concerned, has Northern Ireland any lessons to learn from that success ?

"We have actually made quite significant economic progress ourselves. Throughout the Nineties, Northern Ireland grew at a steady growth, not as high as the peak levels the Republic of Ireland achieved in the late Nineties, but steady. I very much think that we will be able to sustain that growth. We have to look at the way the UK economy as a whole is going, and indeed the economy of the rest of Europe and the United States."

And what of joining the euro? Is he against it?

"I am certainly against it in the present circumstances because there is no doubt that the value between sterling and the euro is disadvantageous to us and if you join the euro you would lock in that disadvantage and then we would be permanently disadvantaged. We would need to see the euro strengthen because the problem hasn't been the strength of sterling, it has been the weakness of the euro."

MR Trimble's comments on the South at his party's ruling council eclipsed his main demand for a border poll on the question of Irish unity. What is the point of reviving the issue at this stage, given the fact that there is no reason to believe the North's status would change in a referendum? "That is the reason for mentioning it because a lot of people fear that Northern Ireland is being undermined, and will continue to be undermined. There is, in particular in the unionist community at least half of the unionist community a strong belief that the Agreement is being undermined by the way republicans have operated, and through the threat of violence which they believe has resulted in continued concessions being made to republicans. They are not encouraged either by the approach the Irish Government has taken which has been consistently partisan on this issue.

"That uncertainty, that feeling of unease, is likely to translate itself into an election result that would destroy the Agreement. Ask yourself how do we prevent that, how do we inject confidence back into that segment of unionists? The one thing that I could see would be a poll."

Decommissioning may also help inject confidence. Recent legislation in Westminster sets a five-year deadline for decommissioning of paramilitary weapons. Does David Trimble find this acceptable, and when, if ever, does he think decommissioning will be complete?

"It's not a deadline. Nobody talked about it being a five-year deadline. The deadline came from the Agreement, and that has passed, and quite clearly decommissioning, according to the Agreement, should now be complete. So this is the most serious part of the Agreement which has not been completed. We have only, so far that we know of, one act of decommissioning by republicans and a very, very small one by loyalists. There's obviously a need for more decommissioning to occur from loyalists as well as republicans. It's not a question of another five years it's overdue."

Asked for his swift impressions of some of the politicians he has known both home and abroad, David Trimble responded as follows:

George Bush: "I reckon George Bush has done an incredibly good job, I thought he was going to do a good job anyway. I formed a favourable view of him long before September 11. What he has done since September 11 has shown other people there's a lot more to the man than they've been told.

Tony Blair: "I worked very closely with the Prime Minister for a couple of years and there is a relationship there obviously. Anybody who can win two general elections with huge majorities like that is clearly going to leave his mark on history.

Iain Duncan Smith: "People have been underestimating him like George Bush. There is more to him than they realise.

Bertie Ahern: "I have a good work ing relationship with him. I have on many occasions paid tribute to what Bertie did in terms of the Agreement. There wouldn't have been an agreement without the contribution that he made. That is proving historic both in our terms and his."

Mark Durcan: "Mark and I have worked together as First Minister and Deputy First Minister. I have known Mark for a number of years because of his prominent position in the SDLP and we are determined between the two of us to make a difference."

Gerry Adams: "Pass."

Martin McGuinness: "Let's not return to the scene of the former crime."

Fine Gael leader Michael Noonan: "I have met him on a couple of occasions. I can't say I know him well. I'm not going to make judgements on people I've met briefly."

Ian Paisley: "Can you riddle me one on that subject?"

Trimble dodges the question when asked if he has opinions as to who might win the election in the Republic of Ireland: "I have no intention of interfering in your domestic affairs."

We're only asking for an opinion.

"I don't have an opinion but I would say you can expect very small movements not huge swings because of the single transferable vote system."

And that's all he will say. He clearly doesn't want to provoke another "pathetic" fallacy.